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Author Topic: New Raid Rules Discussion Thread  (Read 3792 times)

Offline Deafmute

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New Raid Rules Discussion Thread
« on: April 30, 2011, 08:23:51 PM »
I'd like to add something to the healing side if i may.

On the HPS rule its all dependant on the fight for healers and we cant and wont always be reaching them numbers as in some phases of some fights there is very little damage. I would like that rule for fights like Magmaw group healing and not single target as its alot less intensive. but as a general rule most know whats expected and other healers (me especialy) will tell you if your doing something wrong or you need to up your game.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 10:50:28 PM by Driannah »

Offline Orrick

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2011, 08:33:04 PM »
its more based around an average for HCs for example and dependant on incomming damage ofc. Was a rough guestimate on the numbers. but 10k DPS Should be manageable by all classes in ilvl 340 gear

Offline WoW-Flammy

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 02:04:39 AM »
Fair enough. 

Rules like this imply that you are inviting people or accepting people who are not ready (gear wise or other) or do not understand what raiding entails.

Rather than dictating a set of rules, perhaps better team selection?

If you don't have enough people who meet your expectations, recruit some who do, or go to a raiding guild?

This brandishing of "Here is what we expect!" is quite frankly insulting.

Sorry, but this is hardly the first time this sort of thing has come into the imps... and it always turns into a stick to beat people with...




Offline Deafmute

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 04:06:57 AM »
The guild is a casual guild and people in the guild want to raid and clear content I do see where your coming from flammy but people won't see that content in quest blues and an attitude of oh I'll just show up and it will all die so I can see the bosses.

Let's be honest here this will not affect the real casual players who play the game for the social aspect or just want to pvp or collect mini pets. This is an outline for raiding which is a group in the guild who want to raid like people in the guild who want to pvp farm out bg's for better gear to advance and gem it right the same has to be done in pve and bosses have enrage timers that require atleast 10k dps.

Offline Maduin

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2011, 05:06:04 AM »
These rules are for those that want to raid with us and aren't quite sure what they need to do to prepare for that. Raiding is a challenge and we have to accept that it needs preparation. Casual players can raid too if they really want to, but they have to know it won't be easy. People showing up and winging it won't beat bosses and will just let everyone else down that put the hard work in.

I will take anyone raiding that wants to go raiding with us and has done their preparation.
The rules are for those that want to take on the raiding challenge with us to show: what they need to do for us to beat bosses; that they will all be treated fairly; and that we aren't just making it up as we go along.

People who don't meet these requirements but want to raid can ask us to help them prepare, be it with gear from heroics, enchants/gems, advice on rotations etc. We will help them meet these requirements and then if they want to raid with us, they can do so.

I do not see what is so insulting about that.

Offline Orrick

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2011, 11:17:12 AM »
There has always been rules for raiding here (as long as I have been here anyway).

Since becoming GM I have tried to open up more aspects of the game for the guild. I gave officers definite roles and have been trying to get recruitment going for a core team of PvP and PvE players. As we are a social guild we cannot just leave an area untouched and cannot force any one to do anything.

These rules are here to provide some basis for (As mads said) those who want to raid with us, there is no requirement to raid. We just want people to be prepared, have some idea of the tactics and have fun with the rest of the raid. We dont just want to spend every week raiding and wiping on the same bosses for this we need some basic rules ( and these are basic ) to keep things moving.

Offline WoW-Flammy

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2011, 12:28:11 PM »
I think my point is - Raiding takes effort - Getting gear, farming mats/gold for enchants & gems, understanding how to max your class/role, understanding of boss mechanics etc.

Anyone who doesn't understand that shouldn't be raiding - it should be obvious from a couple of heroic runs & a glance at their character that they do not understand.

If people DO understand, then the rules are fairly pointless.  (stating dps levels, hps levels etc) 

IMO, the raid team have a problem getting enough people signed up for raids - this will hardly help, because by putting it in some "rules" it will cause less intelligent people to make sarcastic comments about the ilevel 200 trinket xxxxx is wearing.  Or the incorrect enchant etc etc.  (Even though it helps someone meet their hit cap or whatever)

Casual raiding has only really been possible in WoTLK - it isn't now.  (As far as I can tell)

Anyway, I don't want to get involved in any fights or arguments... i just felt this was a post of common sense about people tackling the most challenging part of the game... which they shouldn't do unless they know it already.

(most of my comments are based on the 1st bit)
Minimum Raid Requirements

1. We expect you to have a minimum of 340 ilvl
2. DPSers should be hitting 10k DPS as a minimum
3. Gear is to be properly Gemmed, Enchanted and Reforged for your Role/Spec/Class (Ask in guild if you need help)
4. Healers should be reaching 8-9 k HPS





Offline Orrick

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2011, 12:49:53 PM »
I know its stating the obvious and but as we have seen in the last couple of weeks people can forfill some criteria and yet still be totally inept at doing anything in a raid but fine in HCs. Were trying to smooth things out and thats it.

Offline Forrix

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2011, 01:14:12 PM »

Casual raiding has only really been possible in WoTLK - it isn't now.  (As far as I can tell)

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i disagree flammy there no reason why we cant progress in the 2 days we raid, for example we had a good grp this week and took down 3 bosses on thursday.

as a raiding team our time is valuable even more so then raiding guilds and there is a few ppl in guild who are new to raiding who arnt 100% sure whats expected this is to serve as a guide for those unsure about whats expected of them when they come to a raid, as we wish to get as many ppl as we can excited and wanting to come to raids.

as for the minimum part unfortunately it might be stating the obvious to you but ur a veteran player, i was in a similar position last year in icc not 100% sure were i should be aiming for and if i were honest a little shy to ask about it. this is to help the raid leaders and the raiders themselves to avoid confusion and so that ppl sign up know what they should be aiming for. 

this may be a social Guild but there is no reason why we cant take raids seriously.

i hope u understand flammy it isn't meant for malicious intent and i apologize.
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Offline WoW-Flammy

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2011, 02:35:29 PM »
No need at all to apologise For..

I just hope it succeeds in making the raiders happy, without fueling any discord with the rest.

I would be happy if a moderator would delete this whole derailing thread, the discussion was made, and I think the raiders explained everything well... I don't want this to cloud what is hoped to be achieved by the original poster.

Cheers for not jumping down my throat all.. :)



Offline Orrick

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2011, 08:01:16 PM »
I cant see the point in deleting it.

I think it proves that we actually listen to the concerns of our guild members.

You brought up a point it was discussed and we can use the information gained to maybe make things better for the (in this case) the more Casual Player, in the future.

Offline Mariko

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Re: New Raid Rules
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2011, 11:56:24 AM »
These new rules seems good for me, but I also agree with Flammy. I dont think either that we should "draw lines in the sands" like ilvl 340, or 10k dps. Instead it would be better to make some more general statements, especially considering that the numbers will change (inflate) with every tier. So instead of saying that

"1. We expect you to have a minimum of 340 ilvl
2. DPSers should be hitting 10k DPS as a minimum
3. Gear is to be properly Gemmed, Enchanted and Reforged for your Role/Spec/Class (Ask in guild if you need help)
4. Healers should be reaching 8-9 k HPS"

I would rather say something along the lines like this:
1., We expect you to have a reasonable starter raidgear, with crafted/heroic pve items.
2., Unenchanted/ungemmed gear is not tolerated, neither totally improper enchants/gems, like rogue with int gems, etc.
3., DPS-ers expected to not get aggro, move out of aoe, and do suitable dps, based on the fight and their roles.
4., Healers expected to not get aggro, not go oom, and - if everything goes as planned - keep their targets alive.
5., Tanks expected to hold aggro, and use their cooldowns properly to avoid dying while getting healed, and have an appropriate gear for the tier.

This way its more flexible, and gives room for the officers, raidleaders, classleaders to make decisions on the individual case (like letting someone to raid in slightly worse gear, because of his high skills, or not letting in someone with full pvp gear, just because he has ilvl340, etc.).
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 11:59:00 AM by Mariko »
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Offline Forrix

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Re: New Raid Rules Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2011, 02:06:30 PM »
Ok folks Ive made done changes to the raid rules nothing too drastic, but check it out and feel free to put ur suggestions here :)

http://www.theimperiumguild.com/forum/index.php?topic=1422.0

and thanks dri for Ur website wizardry !
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 02:08:45 PM by Forrix »
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Offline Bemagik

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Re: New Raid Rules Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 12:52:51 PM »
I am not sure this is the right place to post, but what i have to say covers raiding so seemed the most sensible place to post.

Well as most of you are aware i have only been playing WOW for around 7weeks now, in that time i have got my Mage to 85, and been shown the new Hc's, and also given a lot of help and advice regarding my talents, gear and spec etc.

However right now i am kind of lost, do not know what direction to go in, i have run the new Hc's over and over to try and get myself gear and at present my ilvl is 376, i am still running them for Vp to get even higher ilvl.

I believe at this point i should consider raiding, however saying that i do not know if i am ready, i have read the raid rules and i don't know what my DPS is running at and if it is good enough to try Raiding or if i am so bad that i should stay well clear. I am not the type of person who wants to be carried through anything and would prefer to at least hold my own, I also know that i do not have the full enchants i probably need.

Link to me http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/arathor/Bemagik/simple

I know that i qualify for LFR but i don't have the confidence to join... I do not know the fights and no matter how many articles i read or how many videos i watch, until i am actually in the fight and am shown what to do and when etc then i don't tend to pick it up.

So what should i do is the question, i don't want to raid with Guild if i am a lost cause etc, i don't want to sign up for raids to let you all down and let you carry me, i would rather wait and try somehow to learn and raid when i am strong enough.




Bemagik - Bereborn

Offline Jc

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Re: New Raid Rules Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 01:05:59 PM »
bemagik, probably not the right place for this discusson, i'll give you a more detailed reply in the mage section :)
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